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FA and Pedophilia - The art of Thornwolf
thornwolf
thornwolf
FA and Pedophilia
Attention everyone:

If you love FA like I do and hate pedophilia (again, like I do) please see this thread:

http://www.furaffinityforums.net/showthread.php?tid=4110&pid=56417&#pid56417

Dragoneer has made a poll for us to all vote "yes" or "no" on allowing the kind of artwork thats caused so much drama lately. You'll have to register to the forums to vote, but please, if you have any opinion on this whatsoever whichever it might be, go vote. I think this was a very fair solution and I'm curious for the results.

*edit* Also I'd like to point out that there's ANOTHER poll going on on xianjaguar's journal that the FA mods /will/ be looking at the results to so if you could go vote in that if you feel so inclined it would also help as its slightly more in depth.

http://xianjaguar.livejournal.com/193634.html?mode=reply
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Comments
xianjaguar From: xianjaguar Date: November 3rd, 2006 07:40 am (UTC) (Link)
He also gave me permission to post my own poll in my journal as well, which I just did. It's a bit more detailed... voting in BOTH polls would be helpful.
thornwolf From: thornwolf Date: November 3rd, 2006 07:45 am (UTC) (Link)
ill make an addendum to my post
xianjaguar From: xianjaguar Date: November 3rd, 2006 07:47 am (UTC) (Link)
Thank you so much!!
drake_anaya From: drake_anaya Date: November 3rd, 2006 07:43 am (UTC) (Link)
I kind of like these discussion threads because they tell me who to stay the hell away from.
thornwolf From: thornwolf Date: November 3rd, 2006 07:44 am (UTC) (Link)
LOL me too. Secret window to "who's icky".
(Deleted comment)
martes From: martes Date: November 3rd, 2006 10:06 pm (UTC) (Link)
Check out this thread on Cybercat's FA site: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/50746/
Particularly the knob who said he'd rather see Cyber leave FA than see a ban on cub art. I think he would belong on the 'who's icky' list.
thornwolf From: thornwolf Date: November 3rd, 2006 10:08 pm (UTC) (Link)
Wow what an ass. I'll be sure to avoid them then =/ Cybercat's stuff is good, I'd consider her one of the people I'd be sad to see go.
reyfox From: reyfox Date: November 3rd, 2006 07:46 am (UTC) (Link)
Awfully nice of them to ask us whether they should start enforcing their rules.
thornwolf From: thornwolf Date: November 3rd, 2006 07:48 am (UTC) (Link)
Yeeeeah I didn't quite get the answer I wanted on that one in the forum. "Why are you not enforcing it?" "Because we didn't know what to do with it" "rule says: we don't allow it sooooo what do you do? don't allow it"

Duuuurh. =/

I think there's too many mods. I know that's kinda asking too much of the folks trying to run a large gallery but seriously, too many cooks, man. Too many cooks.
sfinder From: sfinder Date: November 3rd, 2006 07:59 am (UTC) (Link)
Bleh, voted on both those polls. The whole pedophilia thing grosses me out and really crosses a moral line with me, and as much as I like FA, if they do decide to keep it, I'm leaving. There's tons of other gallery sites out there so it's no loss for me, I just don't want to post to a site that supports that sort of thing. It's downright wrong, and as someone who loves children and will soon (next week) be working with MANY of them at a photo studio that caters to mostly family and kid portraits, the thought of people abusing children sickens me.
thornwolf From: thornwolf Date: November 3rd, 2006 08:00 am (UTC) (Link)
Ditto. So far so good though so hopefully we won't have to leave. I don't WANT to leave of course, but I have principles.
sfinder From: sfinder Date: November 3rd, 2006 08:07 am (UTC) (Link)
Same here, I like the gallery, but I can't support or even agree with them when it comes to matters like this. As everyone else said, the fetishes that are clearly fantasy (vore, macro, herm, etc) while not being everyone's cup of tea are atleast 'safe' in that well..you don't need to worry about some guy getting ideas and trying to 'eat' his neighbor. However when it depicts children, human or not, the basic urge is the same. As far as I am concerned, children = cute in the same way that a puppy = cute. They make you go 'Aww'. Anyone who finds them sexually attractive is downright sick, regardless if they are turned on only by non-human 'cub porn'. In the end it's just a different flavor of child porn.


And plus..that Animaniacs one...god...that just soiled my otherwise GOOD childhood memories.
thornwolf From: thornwolf Date: November 3rd, 2006 08:08 am (UTC) (Link)
Yeah I said something similar somewhere else *maybe in my last entry? dunno* that the majority of furry fetishes are A: Impossible or B: practiced by consenting adults.

Pedophilia does not fall under either of these two categories and therefore can't be compared IMO
foxfeather From: foxfeather Date: November 3rd, 2006 08:09 am (UTC) (Link)
I don't get why they were so hesitant to ban/erase the images when their TOS clearly stated it wasn't allowed. I get it they said they weren't sure what to do, but in that case, don't you generally follow the current rules and if changes are made in the future, fine?

Pedophilia in any form (whether it's a baby anthro animal/animal or baby human, it's really the same to me) crosses a barrier that has been pretty strongly culturally determined to exist between ok and not. It's not even a matter of liking it or not, or tolerating it, society pretty much deems it off-limits.
I don't think its fair so many people compare it to other fetishes - people can enjoy (or be indifferent to) 'adult' themed things like porn and horror/gore without meaning they want to go kill/rape/eat someone. When you involve children, though, you again cross the barrier of 'it's fantasy but NOT ok'.
Glad they made the polls, hope they do something about it (and fairly soon). FA is a neat site, would rather not see it go down in flames.
thornwolf From: thornwolf Date: November 3rd, 2006 08:12 am (UTC) (Link)
Yeah I agree, you enforce things under the current TOS until it changes for /all/ to see and then you enforce /those/ rules.
coyotewings From: coyotewings Date: November 3rd, 2006 09:27 am (UTC) (Link)
I personally only voted on xianjaguar's poll, as it has better options and such. :}
I'm very much against underage porn of any sort, it's sickening to me. :{ I think they need to stick to what their TOS already states, and it needs to be enforced.
saitenyo From: saitenyo Date: November 3rd, 2006 10:43 am (UTC) (Link)
Voted on both. It's saddening that they won't even stick to their own ToS. :/
dunaerin From: dunaerin Date: November 3rd, 2006 12:43 pm (UTC) (Link)
Totally voting keep on both. There should be a filter, I agree with that much, but if they get rid of it, I think they should also get rid of ALLLLLLLL THE OTHER, grosser fetishes like beastiality, scat, fat furs, etc. People just look at shota fans as child molesters, whereas it's not even near that. Hell, I'm quite sure in the LAW, Canadian at least, this stuff is LEGAL. You know why? Because sane people can tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

Because Devil May Cry and Silent Hill is not going to make me go shoot people.
From: _wolfess_ Date: November 3rd, 2006 08:47 pm (UTC) (Link)
I'm sorry but did you just say beastility, scat and fat furs are "grosser" than paedaphila??

You honestly are in no position to say whether films and video games are not going to make anyone go and harm people, because in some cases they will, actually.
Take an incident that happened a few years back. A young man killed his girlfriend after being inspired by a Marilyn Manson video.

You fail to make any positive points in having paedaphilia as an art concept.
eski From: eski Date: November 3rd, 2006 09:11 pm (UTC) (Link)
I have to completely disagree with you... A little poo is hardly gross compared to the violation, mental and physical scarring of a CHILD! Depicting this is just sick, and how anyone can support it, free speech or no, boggles my mind. The problem arises not only with the law, but with "sane people" distinguishing between fantasy and reality. Those who are into pedophelia are NOT sane, something is wrong with you if you are attracted to something that isn't sexually mature. If depiction of pedophelia is encouraged, so too will pedophiles.

And by the way, this has nothing to do with the argument that violent vide games encourage violent behavior. For the record, I agree with you on that particular point.
dunaerin From: dunaerin Date: November 4th, 2006 01:24 am (UTC) (Link)
I'm talking about the art kind. Obviously the real life kind is much worse, but artisticaly there is nothing wrong with it.

And really, there is nothing MENTALLY wrong with pedophiles. You have no idea the amount of them that a) hate themselves for their sexuality, b) love, but would never harm a child, or c) are in the limb of 'look but don't touch'. Not all of them are child raping murderers, infact, a small percentage that already had something mentally wrong with them, added to their sexuality. Much like the idea of Meiwes does not mean all gay males are cannibalistic murderers. Sexuality and THEN mental instability, not all in one.

Also I would like to point out that I, as a fan of shota in manga and rp, would never purchase, condone, or even consider real life child pornography or to touch or harm a child (I don't LIKE children in real life. I like FANTASY MADE UP children, that in mentality are alot more mature, or at least in my rp's.)

Yes, of course I can understand your standpoint. But I think you also need to keep in mind that I am not in any way condoning the molestation or abuse of a minor in real life in any situation, no matter what.

So when it comes down to it pretend OR real poo ontheface is waaaay more disgusting than fake pretend, and completely fabricated 'child pornography', shota, whatever you would like to call it.
eski From: eski Date: November 4th, 2006 07:35 pm (UTC) (Link)
I'm talking about the art kind too. DEPICTION of child rape is disgusting as well. And just because a person doesn't act on their urges doesn't make them mentally healthy. If you believe that pedophiles are mentally fine, then ok. There's not much I can do to convince you otherwise, because it seems you have looked at all the social and psychological evidence as well. I just disagree. =/
From: billysheep Date: November 3rd, 2006 03:40 pm (UTC) (Link)
They apparently closed the poll, which sucks because I didn't get a vote in. Oh well. Voted "hell no" on Xian's lj.
eski From: eski Date: November 3rd, 2006 09:05 pm (UTC) (Link)
Is it really closed! I hadn't bothered to register for the FA forums, so I'm awaiting my confirmation email before I can vote. It would be REALLY sad if late comers didn't get to vote...
thornwolf From: thornwolf Date: November 3rd, 2006 09:10 pm (UTC) (Link)
its reopened last i checked and that was an hour ago
eski From: eski Date: November 3rd, 2006 09:50 pm (UTC) (Link)
*voted* excellent. =3
rikacmo From: rikacmo Date: November 3rd, 2006 11:10 pm (UTC) (Link)
I'm more than a little disconcerted that when I voted on the forums, the people voting against banning were in the lead by several percent.

It disgusts me that people think this stuff is no worse than scat, watersports, incest, etc. Someone even tried to compare to hermaphrodites(!!). Sure, some of that's kinda icky, but that's as far as it goes. Ick factor.

As well, some people who are very close to me were sexually abused as children. I've seen some of the scars that can come from this, and the idea that people think this is OK to draw completely sickens me. It's not self-expression, it has no artistic merit, it's just fap-fodder for creepy perverts. I really like FA, and I'd hate to see all of this bring it down, but I'll be another artist to leave if they decide to keep it.

-- Rika
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