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furry community? WHAT furry community? - The art of Thornwolf — LiveJournal
furry community? WHAT furry community?
light rant....yeah right.

okay. talking with tavis the other night, we started talking about how were not exactly furries and were not weres..we just act like animals..enjoy artwork, enjoy just BEING us. sure we like to meet fellow furs..but not those that use buzzwords or try to be in with the in-crowd. for example:

ive met some nice kids..*when i say kid..theyre often older than me...but...* but i would consider some "furry FANs". what they do- use buzzwords common to the fandom but use them forcibly..like when people say "yeah and i was looking FUR something good to eat in the FURidge". its just..forced. *bad example but you KNOW what i mean* and its obnoxious. now when its not forced (like when Meezer says "purrfect") then thats okay and cute =)..because its her being herself. but its clear that some people are just furry newbies and are trying a tad too hard. no offense to them...theyre nice..but..boring. also..some are on furcadia and feel that that is furry LIFE as we know it and nothing else exists. erm..no. ive NEVER been on furcadia and look how many furs i know! go on..count my friends list..and those are just the people who have LJ's. =/ its like saying im a texan just cuz i stopped at a gas station there once.

so yeah..furry FAN but..fur? is there a difference? i think there should be. cuz i would NOT consider myself under the same classification/belief system as him in regards to my "furry" self =P

then theres the people that just take it above and beyond..just..WAY too seriously. not down on you weres or anything..but hello..."i AM that pink fluffy striped dragonfox...its who i am on the INSIDE. i SWEAR. ive SEEN my wereside and its ALL around us." >_< please. you were probably high if you saw it. at least an arctic fox *hugs nar nar*or a normal colored cougar is believable. coloring your character to your own personal preference is one thing.but believing something like that could actually exist..much less exist somewhere in your wacko personality..wow. its my opinion yes..but thats fucked up. ive never personally KNOWN anyone like this *hence my friends list consists of you guys* but you know theyre out there. i mean..come on..*cough*wolfhome*cough*

so where do i stand?
-i dont openly wear a tail and ears..one cuz there has to be some level of respect for those around you in mundane life as it might confuse them...and also cuz i dont have any decent pair
-i dont believe i am thorn..in fact...shes just a character..like a screen name..that i use to represent myself. if i have to represent my TRUE self..its niko...shes just..me..with fur..and a tail =P but i dont think that i am HER per se. i just woke up one day and thought "gee..what would i look like as an animal..oh here we go!"
-i dont think theres an animal inside me. *burp*aroo!...oops. i just act animal -like
-i act like an animal because thats how i act. its how ive always acted. ask my mother. i have ALWAYS done it. Tav too..we just supress it because of..well...childhood taunting or fear of "fitting in".
you get to know us well enough and well open up for ya.
-i love the art, but i dont wanna get involved in the drama..*which im going to discuss in a minute*

so..what am i? i honestly think there should be another classification. not furry. not were. something else. Tav and i tried to come up with a name for it. *and no im not trying to start some kind of anti fur revolution..duh.* cant think of one. but..meh. i dont feel "right" anymore. its almost like im not "worthy" of being a fur cuz i dont meet all the classification requirements or something. i use "fur" as a general term..but if i had to say im anything..im a loose cross between a fur and a were..with only the basics in mind =P thats actually also the kind of christian i am. i dont wanna get into the nitty gritty..i just believe in god and jesus and no one can persuade me otherwise.

so..on with the rant about this so called "community" weve made for ourselves.

ever notice how lately the community has been nothing but a bunch of bitches bitching about other bitches? whats up with that? what happened to good old fashioned furry fun? now its just a bunch of kiddies with odd weresides going OMG OMG OMG all the time. theyre not in touch with themselves enough to stop and think "wow..im being ridiculous.." but then again..being a fur is a tad ridiculous in itself now..isnt it? have you even stopped to think about how the world views us? not that i care..but..man..at least dont make us look bad. i can tell you one thing..im CONSTANTLY getting associated with the "undesireable" furs just because of the percentage of them..such as..furverts, newbies, twinks etc. now..that hurts. cuz..im just me. i draw furs, i love animals..and im just sweet little ol thorny. do i deserve that? i never classify anyone right off the bat just cuz of what things they like...at least take the time to get to know someone first =*(

one major point...

artists ripping artists off:

okay, this is a sore subject for everyone im sure..but then it gets to a point where if you steal the same shade or tone of someones character..not even used in the same context..its like....OMG! U STOLE RED # C42323 !!! THATS MINE!!! OMG!
thats a little much. ive seen it. its stupid..but it happens. ive been also seeing lately that people have "style" rips. wtf? i always thought that in order t be a good artist you take the aspects of art that you like from other people and apply it to your own. this doesnt mean "totally rip it off" but merely blend it. for example..huskies and sabbys pics arent exactly alike. do they adopt each others style? yes..they do..but i can tell you one thing..show me ANY sabarika pic and ANY huskie pic and cover up the copyrights and i can tell you who drew them. they are that different. and both equally as good in my own eyes *hugs you guys* sorry for using you as an example..

starfinder..i hope she wont mind me using her as an example and its in no way in negative context and she knows i love her..BUT...people have said she rips of kyohts style. thats bullshit. pure..bullshit. can you tell the diff between ky's and stars art? no duh! so can i! besides..theres only so many ways to draw weres without having to copy SOMETHING. she has original ideas that are in no way similar to kyohts..for example..those flying wolf parrot thingies? yeah. show me a kyoht drawing that has one of those. i dare you to show me even one. if anything starfinders style has evolved quite a bit over the past couple of years from what ive seen..and though she may adopt certain things from kyoht..she applied them to her own style and gave it that unique starfinder touch. everyone goes through changes before finding their niche. hell, i havent exactly found mine yet. coincidences to happen..and will always happen, but thats no reason to get huffy about it.

oh..and the backstabbing..needs to stop. dont think that just because my EZBoard account is suspended due to technical difficulties that i dont look at forums. no..thank god no one has talked about me *yet* or *to my knowledge* will..now that ive made this post *which is my own opinion, and is in fact on MY own journal..*..but ive been reading posts that involve people..other artists..shooting each other down when theyre proud of their work. now why is that? and why do people go on public forums and talk crap about other artists saying "they need to die" or someshit just because they have a style you dont particularly like. is it really that serious? cuz if it is..you need help. everyone knows who reads my friends only LJ posts that i dont like a certain persons art..but thats my own preference. i dont go mentioning their name in public or saying they need to die or anything..or being violent against them. and no..im not just talking about sabbys shitpot. that forum is MADE for that kind of thing..but i see it at oakpaws too among other places. its like people get joy out of making others feel bad. sadists i tell you. =P

IMO this is what i said to my buddy Westly when we were chatting on the subject.." they should spend less time bitching and more time improving on their art." =P notice how i dont dwell on things. i try to get along with everyone i meet. im that type of wolf...i LOVE nice people. but im also not horribly vengeful either. i let things go. something i think others need to do as well if were going to maintain a sense of "community" in this fandom or whatever you may call it now. *fandom..another thing that bugs me..im a fur..not a FAN*

i mean seriously...i dont get it..this is supposed to be like this safe environment where people go to share similar interest..not get trashed by each other in stupid highschool drama even when most of the more "respectable" furs are far into their late 20s early 30s and older. i cant even tell you how many times ive seen a furry or a were say they cant take it anymore because everyones so dramatic. it hurts me to see this, because i care for them, and i sympathize for what theyre going through. it sucks when the place you feel safe and you can freely express youself turns against you. not message boards or galleries, but the sense of community as a whole. it really doesnt have to be this way. it doesnt. its a total shame.

the furries i admire and who i consider "original" and "non dramatic" are those like XianJaguar, Megan Giles, Katarina, Nduli amongst others...who from what /ive/ noticed...stay out of the drama. and i admire them all the more for that. its something ive tried to do myself, but in my effort to make "furry" friends, i somehow get sucked into it. well..im pulling myself back out cuz i dont wanna get burned too.

wolfhome, oakpaws, various message boards..whatever..all are sources of drama. ive left wolfhome..oakpaws is abandoned from what i understand...and the only other message boards i frequent are yerf and the paleo pages. =/ ive been drama free as a result..and to be quite honest i like it a lot. i just get the "good" points of everyone and i dont get flamed for my "originality" or lack thereof..cuz anything i DO say, i say in my own journal. im not saying "oh now all you should just talk freely in your journal cuz this isnt a free country anymore." im just asking.."when did it get this bad?"
when did it get to be so hard to just "be a fur" and "talk to other furs" without worrying about drama ensuing?
popularity is a sham...the various phases will die out and soon another one will come along to take its place...*remember the road rovers thing? yeah..gone..long time ago...* and soon there will be newer artists for people to rip off and idolize. its all fleeting..so just make friends and be nice to each other for fucks sake. after all, were hard to find =/ might as well have fun with the ones you DO meet. i know i have a VERY hard time finding those furs i can connect with on a personal level. a couple who i consider dear friends live in other COUNTRIES much less across the country. its that hard for me. and we really connect.. not just art.not just a "fetish" or whatever else you can dish out....but im friends with them because theyre like me...theyre just....them. and they happen to act like animals ;)

so..in short..i may have committed "furry" suicide, but if i didnt say it, who will? i love being a fur..and you may take my popularity, but you cant take my "self" away from me.

community my ass. wake me when we can all just get along.

Current Mood: thoughtful thoughtful

25 comments or Leave a comment
techno4tomcats From: techno4tomcats Date: April 16th, 2003 01:05 am (UTC) (Link)
Too true. Never really said, Hey I'm an antlered wolf, thats what I was meant to be, I am spiritually a black and red wolf with antlers- Kimbo is really just a fun character that I've grown very attached to.

I suppose the best way to compare it is like to actors that are "famous" or known by the character they played on a TV show or movie.
thornwolf From: thornwolf Date: April 16th, 2003 06:53 am (UTC) (Link)
like jason biggs will always be known as the guy who "screwed the pie" and jim carey can NEVER play a serious role without something feeling off =)
techno4tomcats From: techno4tomcats Date: April 16th, 2003 04:10 pm (UTC) (Link)


Too true..^^.
From: whiteyote Date: April 16th, 2003 02:48 am (UTC) (Link)
Yes yes yes yes and... yes. :) I love the way you put this in text Thorn. Once again, major kicking of butts.
reaperfox From: reaperfox Date: April 16th, 2003 03:42 am (UTC) (Link)

I used to lable myself a "furry fan" for the LONGEST time, because I didn't want to be considered along the same lines as the /weirder/ furry folk out there. I was just somebody who naturally acted a bit animalistic (and enjoyed it, dammit), LOVED the art and LOVED the concept.

But then I actually MET a few furries (Yourself included) that WEREN'T freaks (Thorn, you know what I think of the majority of British "furs" that I've met...) or boring. I started adding them to my LJ friends list, to get to know them better, to see how different I actually am from them.

I'm not that different. So I made a declaration to myself that, yup, I'm a furry. Do I make a big song and dance about it? Naw, 'course not. Like you, my mother can vouch for the length of time I've acted like an animal. *Rolls eyes fondly* I can't remember how many times I'd run around the garden on all fours. I was always a dog or a horse, always. It struck me as natural back then... until I realised all my other friends were either playing with makeup/dolls/fashion or just weren't playing at all. And then I thought "hrmmm."

I don't know if there is much of a furry 'community'. If there is, I'VE had a hard time finding it. Thats why it took me so long to get "in", and was only after I met you and various other folks that I concidered myself "in" the furry community. I think the "communities" are full of the...as you say... twinky type fans. I used to frequent Furcadia, but it was just a game. Beautiful, and fun to RP, but it's not real.

I'd much rather have a group of friends that are furries than be a part of the wider /furry community/ I think. I'll leave that for the cons. :)


pinkpuppybelly From: pinkpuppybelly Date: April 16th, 2003 04:29 am (UTC) (Link)
I call myself and Nathaniel "outskirters"... We're sorta in the ball game, but mainly, we're way out in left field picking flowers and putting them in our mitts.
dragoncreator From: dragoncreator Date: April 16th, 2003 04:55 am (UTC) (Link)
All this is very true. You made alot of good points that I never took the time to say myself. But there was another thing ya didn't mention.

People have accused your art right and left of looking too much like kyohts. Again, with the "style theft" thing. Yet, you post your art on Kyohts forum, and she (along with others) doesn't bring it up or start screening THEFT!

Goes to show you how different the maturity levels in this community can be. :P
thornwolf From: thornwolf Date: April 16th, 2003 07:01 am (UTC) (Link)
yeah, i know, i didnt want this to turn into a "thorns a little pissy cuz some people need to get a life and leave her alone" rant.cuz its really not about /me/ per se. but i really dont care when people say my art looks like kyohts. most people who say it are the ones trying to get on ky's good side and say "lookie me i done good..i brought you another art thief wise master." sure ANYTHING nowadays can be considered ky style theft. we like her art, it influences us..but that doesnt mean /i/ copy. hell...people might think /you/ copy cuz you draw dinosaurs in watercolor and colored pencil =P

and yeah, ky's a sweetheart from what ive experienced. im sure if she had a beef with something shed take it up with me and say "hey..thorn..your recent..looked a tad like mine so maybe could you tone it down a bit?" and id kindly take her suggestion because she herself was mature about it to come directly to me.
notifying the artist is one thing..but fighting their battles when they dont need to be fought? now thats just stupid.
nduli From: nduli Date: April 16th, 2003 05:50 am (UTC) (Link)
I've been putzing around in furry fandom since 1996 now and things -have- gotten a bit worse on the whole "theft" thing. I think part of the reason has to do with the fact that the uber popular artists started the whole theft page thing and suddenly it became really cool to point fingers. Hey, rat out a thief and big-popular uber-artist might like you, no? Plus, you haven't "made" it until someone rips you off(or so it seems) and so announcing it to the world is an easy way to assure yourself of your popularity.

There's always been some drama in the fandom but it's only recently that the artistic bitchiness, back biting and scapegoating has reached a high enough level that it's become a cliche' and even funny in it's predictiablity.

*Shrugs* I'm here for the fun as soon as this whole talking animal thing becomes something I need to be upset over is the time that I need to find a new hobby.

Don't let the silly goings-on bug you Thorn, some people lead really boring lives and the "drama" is the only excitement they ever get.

-just an artist that loves drawing and looking at fuzzy things.
thornwolf From: thornwolf Date: April 16th, 2003 07:05 am (UTC) (Link)
youre very right. that whole "hall of shame" thing. yeah i know a couple people who have them..but i know those who WANT them just so they can "collect" art thieves. i quite personally dont find it very nice to display someones artwork rubbing it in their face that they were wrong, long after the incident occurred...

such an example is KAK's HOS, which is the meanest, cruelest, stupidest thing ive ever seen. Kat, do you have a link to that somewhere?

most of the people on there didnt steal squat..which also brings back up that whole "you stole my colors/pose/style" thing.

hope you dont get bored with the whole thing. i like yer art =) but of course..thats me being selfish ;) *waggle*
dunewolf From: dunewolf Date: April 16th, 2003 07:49 am (UTC) (Link)
What i find really odd and rather stupid is when someone makes a 'hall of shame' page BEFORE they have anything to put in it.. And they say "Nothing here yet.." as if they're waiting and expecting someone to steal their art. o.0

I never liked them.. but Sometimes it Is useful If it features Persistant art theves.. just warning you to watch this person, rather than featuring one time art theft kids who didn't know any better and who appologised afterwards..
frisket17 From: frisket17 Date: April 16th, 2003 11:08 am (UTC) (Link)
I know I've a HoS site... Namely because I've been ripped off repeatedly. Most of the time they're idiots that trace my line work (sometimes not even that.)and slap a new layer of color on it. It's frustrating.

The reason I know I have it is to discourage the idea. The main points are look. You're gonna get caught eventually. It's looked down on. It'll hurt you in the future. Don't do it. Give credit.

I mean hell. If you draw/trace another's work, don't post it as your own. Hell. Ask permission. I know because I've problems with intimiate scenes, I've recently asked Huskie if she'd not mind me using her yiff pics as a tutorial. (she's ok with it. ;> Ha. Gotta show her some stuff later on.... I still can't draw penises. Frickin' freaky things of hell.)

But yes. I'll agree the people that put up a HoS site without anything in it .... Well that's stupid... And KAK? -gigglesnortcoughgag- Dude. Do you even want to touch that subject?

The point is ..There's a right and wrong thing to everything, and moderation is a key... ;>
katarina42 From: katarina42 Date: April 17th, 2003 03:47 pm (UTC) (Link)

Link to the horror that is KAK:

Kylen was the first person to put up a Hall of Shame and she had more than sufficient reason to, even if she never included her stalk...er, main offender :-P Between Rachel and all of the other people that ripped Kylen off, she felt she needed to take action, and I agree with her.

Yes, some of the Hall of Shames are there out of necessessity as a warning, but some are just idiotic.
techno4tomcats From: techno4tomcats Date: April 18th, 2003 12:42 am (UTC) (Link)
Holy Sheet, thats one bad shame hall. x_x;
katarina42 From: katarina42 Date: April 18th, 2003 08:24 am (UTC) (Link)


If you're unfamiliar with KAK, the worst thing about it is the fact that she herself is a "famose" art theif. The people that she's claiming ripped her off probably haven't even heard of her. :-P
techno4tomcats From: techno4tomcats Date: April 18th, 2003 05:03 pm (UTC) (Link)


Eii, it gets worse. Truth be told, never heard of her, until now.
vegetakuma From: vegetakuma Date: April 16th, 2003 10:36 am (UTC) (Link)
As I've always thought of it, I always thought "furry" was a very general term. The weres, theriarthropists, plushies, etc all just kinda fell under that. In general most of the people I would call furries are thowe who just have a general appreciation for most things animal related, especially when it comes to art, comics, and representing themselves online. I'd think anyone who feels the urge to attend Anthrocon and the like are pretty much in that catagory as well, because well they most likely have 2 or more of the above qualities.

Being furry doesn't mean you believe you are an animal, nor does it mean you want to have sex with animals or like to have sex with stuffed animals. In every fandom there are the extremes, and some people have so much trouble dealing with their everyday lives that they barricade themselves inside this imaginary world so that they can ignore what they can't deal with.

When you go to a furcon, on the surface you'll see 2 things just from physically observing people. You'll notice a high percentage of overweight people. Most likely these are people who have found some kind of difficulty in life being accepted or have self esteem issues, therefore when they create their fursona online, they have this mask they wear which allows them to interact with others normally online, when you make friends online, they eventually tend to relate to you as that character and this person has managed to overcome the barrier of their physical appearance.

However, in one sense some people may see this as some kind of sickness. But a mental sickness is a problem that prevent the person from carrying out their lives normally. In the case of someone who's very overweight, the sickness is most likely their concern of their own weight. However, by creating this mask online, they overcome the problem. They speak with more confidence, feel better about themselves, and can interact with others more easily.

As far as my definition goes, I don't see anything wrong with it that would offend people. However, i have noticed that there are many people in the community who either:
1) don't like being labelled, because then they feel there part of the crowd
2) don't have the positive self esteem to live with the remote possibility that they will be associatied with something negative
3) belive being furry is becoming "cool" therefore they need another label so that they can fall under the safety of being different. ie being the outsider is "cool and original"

My thoughts on those 3 ideas:
1) having thousands of people being labelled under a certain thing shows that they all have something in common, despite the differences they have
2) if you're afraid someone's going to judge you based on others actions and not your own, that's their fault that they missed out on a great opportunity to get to know you.
3) From what I see, apparently showing how you don't belong is becoming the "in" thing online. But isn't the whole point of meeting people online trying to find people with similar interests outside your own neighborhood? If you don't want to belong anywhere, what is the point of telling everyone you don't fit in?
thornwolf From: thornwolf Date: April 16th, 2003 02:24 pm (UTC) (Link)
you bring up a very good point, mas. i shouldnt be afraid of what people think of me..nor should anyone else. i am a "fur" in the general term and thats how im going to leave it i suppose. =) i feel better about that issue now..i just hope others will too and stop giving into all the stereotypes and assuming that thats all there is to it.

im not trying to become some "outsider". im just trying to better understand what it means now. it seems the definition of things has changed greatly over the course of a few months and i wanted to be sure of what the main points were
redcoatcat From: redcoatcat Date: April 16th, 2003 01:06 pm (UTC) (Link)
*blank stare* I know I acidently spell it purrfect. But I really don't mean too... Its all the chat days when people would 'clone' your IDs..Hense the Merow bit..
Ahh back before password protect chats..

Melodrama happens in every section/ccommunity online.
People come online for excitement. So throwing stones, pretending someone online is your moral enemey adds that spice that is otherwise a mudan life..
I DISLIKE some people online. But so far to say I HATE THEM? Naww
When people start doing this my reply normally is
"Get off the puter makes some real eneimes..Text doesn't dish out daggers like in person conflict does"

thornwolf From: thornwolf Date: April 17th, 2003 12:43 am (UTC) (Link)
youre cute and you know it Meezer ;)

and youre right. people do need real lives..but it also goes along with Mas's post..that they create this little world for themselves to feel better..and..every good also comes with a bad, so i guess thats where all these little "made up enemies" come in =P

and yeah..i dont hate anyone. not even in my mundane life =P its pointless and if i do or did, i get over it VERY quickly.
sabarika From: sabarika Date: April 16th, 2003 02:54 pm (UTC) (Link)


Yeahman, I don't mind being an example. At least you can see the difference. -.-
zzyllo From: zzyllo Date: April 16th, 2003 05:07 pm (UTC) (Link)


I agree with some points, I disagree with a couple. It's all a matter of opinion. Very well displayed, I might add.

kubo From: kubo Date: April 16th, 2003 08:25 pm (UTC) (Link)
Just wanted to poke my nose in & agree. Some people really do just take themselves far too seriously anymore.. :P It really is a sad thing when people spend more time undermining others then just enjoying what they have in front of them. But then this behavior definately isn't original to just the furry fandoms either. but anyway, I agree, life's just too damn short y'know.. :P
thornwolf From: thornwolf Date: April 17th, 2003 12:46 am (UTC) (Link)
just wanted to tell you ive been a fan of your art for quite some time =)

and yes..youre right. there should be more positive influences than negative.

we should build each other up to create a stronger community rather than hacking away at each others emotions..which usually can end any good thing..and almost always does =P and yeah..it IS everywhere..but...doesnt mean we have to contribute to it is what im saying
From: (Anonymous) Date: April 19th, 2003 11:23 pm (UTC) (Link)


Very well said Thorn. I'm new to the.... umm....slag...I don't know what to call it now O.o.... oh well, I'm fairly new to this and haven't really had the chance to make to many furry friends, but from what I've heard from the ones I do have and from some experiences I've had myself, I have to agree with you all the way. Hopefully when I do start to get fully into the scene, I won't have to deal with a lot of the drama that I also see on Furcaida O.o; But anyway, awesome rant ;)
25 comments or Leave a comment