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WIP - Help please? - The art of Thornwolf — LiveJournal
thornwolf
thornwolf
WIP - Help please?
Heres an idea I had for a real media piece and I was wondering if I could get some help on it cuz I suck ass at birds.

Its going to be an albino crow that's acting sort of as a (don't laugh) snow spirit, in that he's turning into a snow storm, that's why the back end of him fades out. I need help with his left wing and anything else would be most appreciated.

Current Mood: busy busy

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Comments
mizunoyume From: mizunoyume Date: March 20th, 2005 08:19 pm (UTC) (Link)
I'm not overly positive, but I think at the angle that the crow is moving, keeping that wing bent down like that would not really be possible. It looks like the crow is going fairly "level" and not turning, so the wings would need to be spread at the same amount of ... well, spread. Birds rarely bend one wing without bending the other and that's only to turn.
thornwolf From: thornwolf Date: March 20th, 2005 08:37 pm (UTC) (Link)
I thought that too, but then I thought of having that wing fade out a bit more than the upraised one. The left wing is going to be "less there" than the other, but I still need to find a good ref to give it more of an angle. Suggestions?
mizunoyume From: mizunoyume Date: March 20th, 2005 08:46 pm (UTC) (Link)
Okay, maybe it's your initial sketch that fooled me. The way I see the sketch, it looks like the bottom flight feathers fade out. That would still leave the wing needing to be fully stretched. If you sketched it that way because you wanted the wing to start fading at the joint, but the whole of the wing as opposed to the feathery area, I can see it now. I'll take a look, see if I can find something picture wise that would be good and comment back for you.
mizunoyume From: mizunoyume Date: March 20th, 2005 08:49 pm (UTC) (Link)
http://www.vistainternetproducts.com/images/storecrowingstop.jpg

Here's a good little picture of a few different crows. Unfortunately, most of the stuff I'm finding while looking is airplanes. 9_9
thornwolf From: thornwolf Date: March 20th, 2005 08:50 pm (UTC) (Link)
Ah yeah I have that one, that's someones 3D model though and has some inaccuracies but I used some of it for pose. Thanks =)
thornwolf From: thornwolf Date: March 20th, 2005 08:52 pm (UTC) (Link)
Sorry, my sketches are quite messy. I'll try to fool with it and post an update tonight so its a bit..eh..neater? hee hee
mizunoyume From: mizunoyume Date: March 20th, 2005 08:53 pm (UTC) (Link)
Well, so long as -you- remember what's going on in the sketch, that's the important thing. It's like when you write something down in scribbly quick writing and come back and can't read it later, but you were sure it's important.
mirsathia From: mirsathia Date: March 20th, 2005 08:19 pm (UTC) (Link)
I'd say his closer wing could probably be flipped up, pointing right at the viewer, so you could see the underside of the feathers perhaps? I did something similar with one of my pictures semi-recently. Something like this except, well.. opposite. :3

Is that what you're looking for?
thornwolf From: thornwolf Date: March 20th, 2005 08:36 pm (UTC) (Link)
Yes actually, I had the damndest time trying to find a pic of a wing at that angle, so I was hoping someone would have a ref, I'll try to see what I can do. Thanks!
mirsathia From: mirsathia Date: March 20th, 2005 09:15 pm (UTC) (Link)
Same here! It's why I ended up just fudging it! XD
dunaerin From: dunaerin Date: March 20th, 2005 08:37 pm (UTC) (Link)
Hm, perhaps on the left wing you should have it so the wing tips point towards the veiwer?
(Deleted comment)
thornwolf From: thornwolf Date: March 20th, 2005 08:50 pm (UTC) (Link)
it is a crow though, not a raven (did I say Raven? omg..oops if i did). thanks for the refs though, I can use them for coloration =)
tengukun From: tengukun Date: March 20th, 2005 09:03 pm (UTC) (Link)
First things first... You make me squee happily with this. ^.^ I wanna see the finished product! (obssessive? Me? Nooooo.)

Second... lessee, I think it's already been covered, but when I look at that wing, it seems like it should almost be coming towards the camera/viewer, with the angle he's at and the angle the other wing is at. It'd be a hard one to draw, though, particularly with the fade out you're attempting. The storm would end up kind of spreading over his back, from the viewer's perspective, which COULD work if it was faded enough not to block out the rest of his body (which would be a shame)

I, err.. hope that makes sense. @_@
foxfeather From: foxfeather Date: March 20th, 2005 09:16 pm (UTC) (Link)
Very nice :)

One thing you may want to keep in mind is that the wing on the right hand side is pointing off directly at an angle to the paper there. It leads the eye away from the image, and is one of those composition things you pretty much never want to do (often when the eye exits the paper because it is pointed that way it never comes back). The rest of the piece has a really nice, circular, flowing quality to it and so that wing is really jarring. I would recommend making the right wing more like the lower/left hand wing, but perhaps with sharper feather detailing. You may think of even moving the paper to a landscape position if you want to get outspread wings, though you would lose the nice up-and-down feeling you have going here.

Hope any of that helps! You may want to look at perigrine falcon wings for reference for these kinds of shots - though the wings themselves are different they are much longer and more tapering than corvid wings and could help you with the snow/dissapearing parts of the shape.
mshmsh From: mshmsh Date: March 20th, 2005 09:33 pm (UTC) (Link)
bastek From: bastek Date: March 21st, 2005 12:35 am (UTC) (Link)
2 things with this picture..(both have already been mentioned...but whatever.)
First is the wings, which a lot of people have made sugestions for, but I've gone a little deeper to try to help. I have a crow wing laying around in my room...unfortunately its not in quite the same position as yours is (not as splayed), but I think it can give you some help. I just went ahead and took pictures, and pasted them ontop of your drawing to give an idea... I drew some lines over them in hopes of showing what it might look like if they were more splayed. I know how hard wings are to draw from this paticular angle though. It's kinda messy, but I hope it helps you some.

Ok..as for the composition. it feels like you have the crow just pasted onto the paper, almost, or else that the image is just cropped right around it.. It seems to me (although I might be biased) that with a picture like this, its nice to display some atmosphere with a bit of "breathing room". I showed in the redline on the right some flaws in the current composition... there are 2 main leading lines that lead you right to the corners of the format. This can be bad, because our eyes get stuck in the corner and it leads to the composition feeling.. halted. Also, the positive space in the image *which i view as being the crow and its trail of snow* very much outweighs the negative... in some pieces this would work, but for this paticular one, it seems a little suffocating, if you know what i mean. it would be nice to have some more open space and room to flow..
I just went ahead and scribbled up two ideas of what I personally might do for the composition. I'm not saying to follow it, I just know that sometimes it helps me to see what another artist would do with one of my images to improve it..so i'm hoping it will help you some.

Wow, I ended up going super in depth on this one.. I really hope it helps you >__o

aaaand here's the actual picture:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/bastek/thorncrow.jpg
bastek From: bastek Date: March 21st, 2005 12:37 am (UTC) (Link)
Oh..and by the way, I really do like the idea...! It kinda reminds me of a piece I wanted to do once with a white/blue crow and smoke..heheh.

I really hope you finish this!
thornwolf From: thornwolf Date: March 21st, 2005 01:51 am (UTC) (Link)
Awesome, I may very well end up switching the head around to create more flow as you suggested, but I kind of wanted to show the eye/expression a bit, any suggestions on how I can accomplish this without breaking his neck?
loopeygirl From: loopeygirl Date: March 21st, 2005 06:32 am (UTC) (Link)
No advise here. What a beautiful concept! I can't wait to see it done!
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